So a couple of months ago I was sitting in church and I thought, I can't be in relief society any more. I need a new calling. I REALLY NEED a new calling. I need a calling that will get me out of RS. A week or two later I was called to Nursery and I was sooo happy.
Don't get me wrong, the relief society in my ward is top notch. They're fun and caring and sensitive and everything else a RS is supposed to be. But I had sensed earlier that I was "wanted" back in nursery. On top of that I had started feeling uncomfortable in RS. RS sometimes feels like a RA-RA, We're all Moms! sort of scene. And I would walk away from the RS lesson repeating to myself: my life is not worthless, my life is not worthless, even if I have no children and am very clearly a" woman who does NOT know," a woman "without faith" (women of faith have children) I am not a bad person. I'm a good person. I like myself. Aaron likes me. I like God. I'm pretty sure He likes me. Zero population is the answer my friend, without the rest of us are doomed. (Just kidding about that last one. He he. ) I started getting really sick of feeling that way every Sunday. So hurray for nursery and two year olds who like Moms but don't really care if you are one.
Not going to relief society has lifted some of the pressure, but I still have a feeling of uneasiness. I feel like I keep hearing talks that have a "with us or against us" tone towards motherhood. In some ways I can understand the mom cheering: It validates a very difficult time of life which involves a lot of self-sacrifice and gets VERY little recognition. If you are a mom you can go to church and get some R-E-S-P-E-C-T in the Aretha Franklin sort of way.
But it hurts to hear that I am a woman without faith. It feels like a slap in the face. I always thought I was faithful. Am I not faithful? Are my present efforts in my life and work worthless? What is it with all the comparing? I feel like I respect mothers, but I don't feel like I don't get much respect back. I get more curious questioning: so when are you...
People seem to very casually toss out that everything we do in this earth life except kids is worthless. But doesn't intelligence rise with us, when we die? Don't we treasure the work of women? What if Austen never wrote her novels? Emily Dickinson never wrote her poetry, Marie Curie never did her research, or Eliza R Snow never wrote her hymns? Where would we be without In Our Lovely Deseret??
What if ALL women everywhere did not work outside the home. If they filled no positions in government. They were not health care providers or teachers or professors or scientists or authors or artists or business women or hair dressers or astronauts. Wouldn't that be a sad world? Would our daughters believe us when we tell them they can be anything, do anything, if all of us fill a single occupation? I mean, I know having children doesn't mean you automatically stop working outside the home, have as many kids as is humanly possible, and become a domestic goddess but that seems to be the cultural expectation. Is that expectation righteous or assumed? Didn't Christ tell Martha that Mary chose the better part by not taking up the domestic act?
These are very real questions for me. They aren't meant to be rhetorical. Particularly that question about what the world would be like without In Our Lovely Deseret, very important to think about. I'd love to hear opinions.
19 comments:
This is a huge topic. I know I am focused on Job lately, but I think something we talked about in my class applies here. "...if anyone is to endure in faithfulness in his life, he must know three things: that God exists,
that he is perfect in his character and in his attributes,
and that the course of life which one pursues is pleasing to the Lord."
I think if we know those 3 things we can have confidence and we will be able to treat others kindly and look to building them up. We will not need the approval of others, even if the path we are taking is very different from theirs. Anyway, I do think this applies.
I also think about a comment by Elder Scott who talked about God not allowing our trials to last one minute longer than is necessary. What do you think?
“The Worth of Souls is great in the sight of God.” (D&C 18:10) He didn’t say the worth of your soul is great if you’re a mother or if you accomplish some great task. He loves each of us individually and unconditionally.
It can stink to be judged by others, but the only person’s judgment that matters is God’s. And if we have faith that we are doing his will, then we can be confident and secure in our decisions...and hopefully be able to ignore the judgments of others. :)
This sort of topic really gets me thinking about my opinions. I think I'm going to post on some of my thoughts in response to your post. Do you mind?
It makes me sick that going to RS, and the church culture in general, would cause anyone to even consider these questions, and yet I'm right there with you. I've been in Primary almost the whole time I've been a mom so all of my RS experience has been without children and mostly single to boot. I haven't looked at the new JS manual but I do know that in past years part of the issue was fed by the lesson topics - divinity of motherhood, strengthening families, etc. There's the topics, then there's how the teachers handle the topics, then there's how the class understands, interprets and discusses the lessons, and then there's people who just don't take the time to be thoughtful, sensitive or open-minded. It's easy for moms to talk about motherhood because it's ridiculously all-consuming. There's certainly a place for that. But I wouldn't think RS needs to be or should be that place very often.
If I ever return to RS I would be seeking personal spiritual fulfillment, as myself and a woman of God, during that hour - a chance to escape the demands of normal life, and even more importantly the roles and titles that define me during the week. It would be nice to just be sisters in that room.
Of course I speak of an RS Utopia that I have yet to find. We don't get to pick what ward we're in, after all. I think you're on the right track, though. While motherhood is a divine role appointed only to women, it's not the only role God has for all women all the time. Sorry for the too-long comment. I like this post and you're not the only one.
Oh and I've got lots of good responses to the "So when are you...?" question. These are good to have on hand because they don't end when you... Then they ask about "When are you... #2?" And 3 and so on.
I think my favorite was in our first married ward when, let's just say I was going through a hard time and had put on some weight. Many a woman laid her hand on my stomach with a "knowing" smile. It was the closest I've ever come to really going inactive.
But anyway, I've got lots of responses depending on who asks. A good one to start with is,
"We're waiting until Aaron kicks his gambling habit." And you can go from there.
I think the world would be just fine without "In Our Lovely Deseret". I'm not a big fan. However, some of the other contributions from women are significant.
Everyone's life is so different. Some people are married, some people aren't. Some people are 28 when they have their first kid. (works for me!) All those single ladies out there have to listen to the mothering lessons along with the joys of marriage lessons. That would be rough. Everyone is amazing, even if our lives aren't the same.
Ouch. I remember having similar feelings in RS at various points in my life, and it's hard to feel that no one really gets you or notices that you're not in the same situation as they are.
While it is true that it takes a certain measure of faith to have children, I don't believe it's church doctrine to imply that one cannot have faith without also having children! Someone should help the teacher who implies that it is.
IMHO: Every woman's good thoughts, good intentions, and good works (in every form) are both pleasing to God and helpful in this world. There are so many ways to think/be/do good things. It reminds me of a quote on my refrigerator:
"To laugh often and much; To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded." (This quote is often attributed to Emerson, but is most likey by a woman named Bessie Stanley.)
All that said, the recent "Leadership Training Meeting" (this one specifically invited ALL adult members) talked a lot about why we spend so much time in the church talking about ideals and patterns when we all know perfectly well that individual circumstances almost never match up to those ideals and perfect patterns all the time. They were talking specifically about "the ideal family pattern" and they fully acknowledged beforehand that patterns are there so we can follow them and avoid errors, and that General Authorities and General Officers (RS, etc) of the church must be able to give General instructions and patterns to follow. (See lds.org for more info.)
We, as humans, have a tendency to forget to include those who are not exactly like us. I think this is because we need the validation of others who are LIKE us to get by. Sometimes, our church meetings can have that kind of affect on us (like no one sees how we don't fit into what they're saying), and that can be addressed by talking about it more. But I hope you don't let that feeling overtake you! It doesn't need to... Christ's gospel is Good News all about salvation and love on the most individual level. And, yes, families can be together forever, too.
ahh, you've had me climbing up and down off my soapbox all morning! (i'm kat, friend of discomom.) your post reminds me so much of how i felt while i was single - unfaithful, unrighteous girl that i am, i didn't get married until i was 34, one week shy of 35.
then, after i got married, the first sunday in our new 'family' ward scared me back to the student ward for 6 months, until i felt like a big enough freak there to try again. i was promptly called to primary where it was relatively safe, but the 7 year olds still asked why we didn't have any kids. to their parents, i would have said 'because we haven't figured out the whole sex-thing yet,' but since they were kids i chocked it up to actual curiosity, since the world they know is adult people having kids.
i did think it was funny that i went straight from getting the 'why aren't you married?' question to 'where are the children?' question without any perceptible vacation. people need to think of more things to talk about.
i think maren summed up my internal sermon nicely - in church, we try to teach the ideal pattern of everything, knowing that EVERYONE falls short in at least one area or another. as a sometime teacher, i try to find ways to bring real life into the lesson without having things go the way of jerry springer - not always successfully. :)
for me, the answer lay in figuring out/knowing/remembering who i am - knowing that what i am doing is cool with Heavenly Father, and NOONE else knows His plan for me and my heart. and of course i never falter here. :) i don't fit the typical mold in my ward, and i'm finally getting to be ok with that. not caring what anyone else things - not in a snotty way but in a good for me way - has helped immensely.
i peaked at your sketch blog. your illustrations are lovely. i really love the watercolor mushrooms.
Kari, I thought I told you not to tell anyone about my gambling problem. I thought my Italian friends in Bay Ridge were going to keep you quiet.
Sorry, just one more thing to say. Kari and Kat are right- people need to think of something else to talk about! They wonder when there aren't any kids, then they wonder when there are so many kids... it's just nobody's business. And yet, people care about you- want to talk about your life with you- and don't know how to say it right. It can be a real challenge to be a graceful recipient of someone's good intentions that come out all wrong.
cool post, kate. I really like your thoughts. I was quite perturbed by the "women who know..." statements. I forgot to tell you that I also really enjoyed your comment on the Exponent II about what is spirituality, which your discussion on RS made me think back to.
I get frustrated when I feel like I'm trying to be manipulated (emotionally, mentally, etc) into thinking the spirit or God wants me to do a certain thing that I already have had confirmed is not right for me (or vice versa) and I sometimes feel that way in church... my confession! (Which is why I enjoy my 7 year olds). I don't think that's usually the intention of whoever planned the class/meeting, but I much rather prefer discussions, not lectures that presume that all within hearing distance agree with their personal cultural preferences.
I'm not trying to talk smack about the church or RS specifically. I just like when the discussion allows for each individual to feel, like mom said (jenmomrn), that we have the opportunity to find OUR course of life, and then try to determine if it is pleasing to the Lord (with the help of church/RS messages).
If there's anything I've learned by working in the social work field, it's that we have NO one cure-all, fix-it for everyone's life- and that is CERTAINLY not the Saviour or Heavenly Father's plan for our lives either... in fact, I think that was Satan's.
I really enjoyed every one else's comments too. Thanks for the DISCUSSION!!
Thanks for this post Katy. I feel your pain. We're in a ward now where they are popping out babies all over the place, and it's hard to deal with for those of us who don't achieve mommy status so easily. If we didn't already have a child (so we can kind of "blend in" with the fertiles) I would have a very difficult time going to church at all.
Apart from my personal feelings on the subject, I think we do *all* women in the church a huge disservice when we focus so much on motherhood. It excludes those who aren't mothers, and for those who have kids it places too much of an emphasis on a single role - because even those who have children only have them for a short amount of time compared to the rest of their lives. I keep hearing stories about women in the church who have no idea who they are and what to do with their lives once their children are grown up and gone. This is really sad. There's so much more to us than our ability to reproduce and nurture.
Thanks everyone for the great discussion! I love hearing all the thought on the subject. I guess that's what I get so hungry for, hearing people's real thoughts and experiences. I like the idea of being open about our circumstances and feelings so we can better understand life.
I hope if I speak about what I feel that others will. I was happy for such a great response. I really liked the point about how the church draws out general guidelines but adaption to those guidelines is the rule not the exception. I worry without a personal response, expectations for women can quickly begin to feel unrealistic and constraining. I don't want the select time of mothering being the only time women are noticed. I sometimes fantasize about how wonderful it would be to have/recognize matriarchs, older and wiser women to look up to and learn from. That way we could have something to grow into and not out of.
Wow Katy - what I really want to know is who is telling you that you are a woman without faith? Besides that I was actually thinking the very same thought you had about what if all women stayed home and didn't work outside of the home. What would the world be like? And is that really what the Lord wants? And will male teachers, coaches, doctors, etc, really be able to connect with my daughter in the way that it is so important that these people do? Would males really be able to influence her in the way I want her to be influenced and taught? Luckily, I don't think I will ever have to worry about that, because that isn't the case.
I think you are awesome Katy (I know you didn't write this post to get that kind of response, but it is true.) I remember when I was first married and I moved to C-ville and I had no idea that there were "levels" of families and that these levels determined who your friends would be. Levels or labels meaning married without kids, married with one kid, married with two kids, and on and on. No one with kids wanted to be my friend...okay, almost no one. I think this is related to your post in that this "level" mentality comes from the same place as your woman without faith mentality comes from.
Anyway, this comment was pretty scatterbrained and I'm not even sure what I am trying to say. One thing that is for sure....everything is different when you move away from C-ville 1st ward.
What is an individual's worth? Can it be measured? I think that for US to try to measure it would be comparable to judging another-this is not our job. I have felt helpless and hopeless at times in my current job as stay-at-home mom. Being there for my kids (especially during transitions like home from school time) is a time I wouldn't want to give up. One thing I've figured out is that everyone wants to be happy and satisfied with their personal decisions even down to little things like which stroller you bought (oh, but does it have this or that like mine does?), we sometimes transfer this over to much bigger questions and decisions. I know that God knows us and He is the only one who should be doing any judging.
I really appreciate your post. And I agree with your thoughts on the subject matter. I love that we get you in nursery! You are such a strong woman who is an amazing example to the children in there.
Plus, I've learned lots of "mothering" things from watching you in nursery. Thanks:)
This post touches on the very meaning of life. In the end, this life is about coming to know God and what He wants you to do/become. I hope you find your individual personal spiritual fulfillment in the Gospel, regardless of where you serve in church or the imperfect people with whom you worship. That said, I take exception to your line about Christ telling "Martha that Mary chose the better part by not taking up the domestic act." For me, this scriptural passage is not about motherhood or choosing to become a stay-at-home mom. It's about misplaced priorities and letting any occupation (inside the home OR in the workplace) become so consuming that you neglect the weightier matters of life and spiritual development. A stay-at-home Mom may become so obsessed with maintaining a spotless home or rushing her kids every which way that she's too exhausted and neglects her relationship with God. A woman at work may become so preoccupied with getting ahead or performing well at work that she's too exhausted and neglects her relationship with God. In that moment when the Savior is here with us, we should all be willing to drop the broom or the report and visit with Him.
First of all, I could do without "In our Lovely Deseret" but that's just me! I think the reason our church preaches children children children is because, well, having children is a commandment. And, quite simply, we teach the commandments. But the other WONDERFUL thing about our beliefs is we believe that the world is not black and white. We believe in personal revelation. "Multiply and replenish the earth" does NOT mean "have a baby every year until you dry up or you will be worthless." It means, "This is the commandment. Now YOU go talk to the Lord to understand when you should fulfill it and how." Read any talk by President Hinkley to women and you will understand that he did NOT want us to be "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen." In fact, I think he once even said that he detests that phrase and hates that anyone should think that our church only places value on women's ability to reproduce. No, President Hinkley taught that we (women) should go out and get our education. He taught that we should obtain ADVANCED degrees. Does that sound like a church that believes women who pursue knowledge or careers are without worth? He taught that we should continuously strive to gain more worldly knowledge and scripture/gospel knowledge. And we should go out and serve in our communities. We are NOT supposed to just become baby making machines. And anyone who makes you feel that way does NOT understand the gospel or woman's role in it. In any organization you find yourself, there will be people who like to point out other people's differences. I don't know why that is. It just is. Perhaps people think they are being helpful, I don't know. One nice old woman in my ward decided to point out that my face is breaking out like there's no tomorrow. Maybe she thought she was sympathising with me, I don't know. I only know I wanted to punch her in the face. Instead, I had to just suck it up and be polite to the crazy woman who thought she had a right to speak her mind about my personal issue. But anyway, I enjoy Relief Society BECAUSE of the variety in there. I love to hear experiences from my president who works with helping abused women get back on their feet, or hear the scriptural knowledge from the woman in the front row who is the greatest scriptorian I've ever met, or hear how the young girl down the row overcame anger, or hear the math teacher's view on service. And by the way, the president is a grandma, the scriptorian is a much older single woman who is well past child bearing years, the young girl is a young mother, and the math teacher spent 6 years trying to conceive a child and couldn't. There is something to learn from each woman in there, whether she is a mother or not. When you can get past those FEW who think you are worth nothing unless you reproduce, you can learn so much.
Try being a single mom in the Charlottesville First Ward. That was fun.
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